SG Podcast Transcripts | stacygallo

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Interviews with commercial industry professionals to talk about how they got their start, and how they keep the faith.

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episode transcripts
season one

Episode Six: YOU WERE MY FIRST
with special guest David Ebert

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Okay. So we're good to go all right. So my guest today is a very special person.

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His name is David Ebert. You probably have heard of him because I don't know if there is more.

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If there is a more professional human out there. But I am lucky enough to call him my friend first and foremost, because we met a very long time ago at this place called the Ucb.

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He was my student, but he has come so far in that time, and I was like begging him in when he had 5 s free to chat with me.

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So I'm so happy. You're here, Dave.

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I can't thank you enough for fitting me into your crazy schedule, because I know how crazy it is now that you're a big fancy commercial director, actor, father, I mean, the list goes on and on.

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So how you doing, my friend?

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I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm really happy to be here. It feels it fills me with pride to be here, cause you were.

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I was what?

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You were my first. You were the first casting director that that saw worse in me when I was a little baby.

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You were a little baby, and like I have so much pride like I'm beaming in that when I can say, okay.

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I met him before. All this. I'm like, okay. I met him before all this amazing success you had.

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But what always blows my mind the most about you is that, first of all, you're so down to Earth, and you've not let all this success go to your head, but that you're so professional, like I can't stress enough to actors, and people.

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Just like, how important it is to like go the extra mile and I use you as an example all the time.

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But let's go back to the beginning for a second.

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Okay, so see? First of all, tell us, like, where you're from.

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Give us a little, David Ebert. History!

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Cliff notes is that I grew up outside of Buffalo, New York.

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Okay.

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I did not know that.

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I grew up on a horse farm and very rural place, and I was very involved in the church, so like Super, I have a super religious add, like my church, we did not do secular things like I was not involved in like I couldn't listen to music, and stuff like that so and I was exposed

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to theater in the church, doing like skits and pageants and things like that.

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Oh, my God! And this is that's where you caught the bug when you had like this foot loose kind of style life where you couldn't sing in dance.

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But then you were involved in the theater.

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I was. Yeah, exactly. I was a very theatrical kid.

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Right.

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And so that I had a kind of uneasy relationship between the school plays and my church, where there was some things I was allowed to do and some things I wasn't allowed to do.

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That's rough.

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But yeah, it it was a very interesting way to grow.

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I think that growing up in an interesting way is helpful to work like this as well.

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Will you use it later? And then you can reflect on it and be like, Wow!

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Yeah.

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How the hell did I get through that?

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Yeah, yeah. But I was a very artistic kid as well.

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Interesting.

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I very visual, was involved in drawing and painting individual arts. I was like I was the president of my Art Club in school as well, and I was going to go to school for illustrations but when I was applying for Colleges.

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Oh!

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I saw that there was a extra like $500 fee for art supplies, that I would have to cover myself, and so literally at the application process.

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It was like art plus $500, acting period.

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And that's how you made this life changing decision. But that's verified $500 a lot of money even now and back then, you know, we're talking.

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Yeah.

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It's a lot of freaking money so, and to have to cover that yourself, like you as an individual right cause.

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Right like I have scholarships that were covering part of my good tuition.

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Where did you go to school?

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I would just.

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Right. We talked about the Sunni connection cause I always loved your accent because I went to Sunni Buffalo, and you're suny, Fredonia, but we always and then your 7, 1 6.

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I'm always. I'm a big area code person.

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No reason why. It's just the thing that I like, anyway.

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So you, Major, you went to school for acting then?

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Yeah, but my school specialized in staged acting.

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And.

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So the big push there was to. They really wanted us to go to rent fares.

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Okay, that's a whole different animal.

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Yeah, they were like, and while they were practical about it, they're like New York, la, the market is there's too many actors there.

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Okay.

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And not enough jobs. Don't bother. There, go to local places, go to like, Ed, so they taught us like sword fighting and a lot of like Shakespeare.

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So I didn't.

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Have you had to use the sword fighting since?

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I can't. I can't think of a situation.

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There's been a couple of times that combat stuff has come up sense that I've used in film.

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We're like, you know.

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What if I need it for something? Cause? Obviously you're still an actor, even though you're directing it.

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Yeah.

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But like, if I'm like now, that's a special skill that I should be paying attention like Dave Ebert. Can sword fight.

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Oh, yeah, I still, I still can do that stuff. And I specifically stage combat stuff.

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Yeah, I use that in my, I've used that in film.

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All right. I'm learning so much today I felt like I knew everything about you, but I was so wrong.

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So then, okay, so you obviously. But you got all this great training.

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Okay at Fredonia. And then I know this part.

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But you come to New York City right?

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Yeah, out of college. I did summer stock. I worked in Florida and I looked around and I thought, This is kind of the end of the aspirations for people being here like, I wanted to have a life in a family, and I wanted to do it off of my passions.

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Right.

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And I was like, you know, for everybody here. They have to have a second job or a third job to support doing theater.

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So I don't think a local market is a long term solution.

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Right.

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I think I gotta go to a big market and just try my best.

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And I wanted to do improv. I was funny in college, and I had been in the improv group in college.

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I liked that. It was being funny without having to do homework.

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Good. Thank you.

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You didn't have to write anything down, and so I wanted to go to New York to take classes and perform at the upper Citizens Brigade. Here.

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I knew that was my path. I was like, I'm gonna be like any polar.

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Did they come to your college or so? How did you know about them?

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I knew about them because of my improv troupe, like we read truth and comedy, and we were aware of them, and they did.

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We got them to come to our school, and, in fact, the crew that came to my school and I was the one they interviewed, and they ripped me apart.

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Wow!

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Uhhuh.

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It was John Gabriel Adam Palley Brand, Gillespie, and Ben Rogers.

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I mean that is a hefty bunch in the fact that, like we know, and because, like, I use you.

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And an example like that, like, look at the people that start here, taking classes, and then go on and like the people that you just mentioned are like unbelievable.

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So the fact that you I mean I can't. I can't even believe that.

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That's like, you know that that group of people is where your start happens right?

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You got the bug from watching that. But how do they rep you apart like? How bad was it?

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I was so so I I volunteered to be the interview subject, and I had just gotten hired.

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I was gonna be working at that theater in Florida, and part of what I was doing at the theater in Florida and part of what I was doing at the theater in Florida was Improv.

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And so they were like, What are you doing this summer? What are your plans for the summer?

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And I was a senior in college, and they're already in the city.

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And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna do it, you guys do.

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I'm gonna go down to learn and do improv.

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And they were like, you're gonna do what we did.

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And they're like, Okay, great, great. And then they just did it.

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A bunch of scenes like I remember Frank Gillespie did a scene where she goes.

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Doctor, I am very sick, and I need somebody to help me out, and the person's like, well, let's it was Gabriel. He's like what's wrong. She goes. No, no, no, you don't need to tell me.

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I can't!

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I'm a doctor, and I was like, Oh, they're dunking on me, and so I.

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I kind of made a vow I was like, I'm gonna go to New York and I'm going to do what they do.

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That. Yeah.

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Did you then say? And then I'm gonna become a commercial director and tell them that they're gonna book this job and then rip it away because they fucked with me.

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And it wasn't nice.

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No, I'll tell you back. When I was 22 commercial director was very far from my mind. Never thought I'd be a director.

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Yeah. But now you can totally cast them and see if like, I mean, I feel like we should just write something and like, but I'm sure you've worked with them since, like these are people we know.

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Yeah, actually, it was funny, because a couple of years after that I got cast on guy code.

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And I remember the first day that I was filming with Gabriel's together.

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I was like, you know, you came to my college, and I was the student, and you were the master, and now we have the same job, and he is like, I don't really give a shit.

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How are you doing? Very cool about it? But.

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Did he remember you, though? No, I feel like you.

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No!

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're memorable.

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No, it was. It's the context that you meet people in, you know.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, that's true. If he's like performing, he's I can imagine.

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Yeah.

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But I'm just gonna say that I've never forgotten you.

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Okay? Because the first time we met was at the Ucb.

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Hmm!

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In a class that you signed up for. Well, all right.

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So let's go back. So you made it. You came to you, or you didn't go to Florida then, or you did for a little bit.

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I was in Florida for a year, and then I came up to New York to take classes.

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Right.

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I moved to the city broke. Didn't have any money, so it took me about 6 months of working in a print shop which I like kind of scrapped my way into that job just because I knew Photoshop.

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I I was working at a print shop, and I took me 6 months to raise enough money to pay for a Ucp. Class.

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So I did. Maybe 3 Ucb improv classes before I took your class.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But I was. I was a very intense young man, where I was like I'm here to get stuff done.

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I'm here to make a career. I'm gonna be famous.

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This is what I'm here to do.

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Right. Well, you had a you knew what you wanted, and most people don't like a lot of people.

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Go to Ucb. And they just sign up for a class because, oh, I'm funny, or I want to get out of my shell, or whatever reason so many people do that are non-actors.

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But you really had this plan, and you just said I scrapped it together, and you know the name of this podcast.

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Is the scrappy genius, because Stacy, Gallo, sg, I'm pretty scrappy.

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I'm a bit of a genius, but I have just decided that you're the Og scrappy genius, because everything that you do and say I'm like he's the real deal like I learned from watching you.

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Even though I got a couple years on you. So you did it.

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You get the money together, you work in this print shop and you start taking classes, and then you may myself and fill in in the commercial class.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I met you guys in the commercial class. I made a couple of decisions going into it.

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One. I'm naturally suited to commercials.

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Definitely.

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I have a commercial kind of face. I also like my timing is kind of suited to it, and then I also I pay attention to like I just like them.

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Yeah.

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But I grew up being like, Hey, Guy, like I talked to people about commercials.

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Right.

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I saw growing up. And it's like for other people that when the TV show went to commercial, there brain turned off in their eyes with black, like I couldn't believe that I'd be like, Hey, do you guys remember the commercial where the kids ate gusters in their heads turned to big

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fruit, and they'd be like no and I'm like, All right, what are you guys doing during the commercials?

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You're not watching it.

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Right there, they're going to get a like caprice on and take a pee and you're watching the commercials like me.

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Yeah, or fast forwarding. Now.

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Exactly so I I had. I had a preclevity for that.

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I also just have kind of a natural year for language where I could hear something and match tone pretty well.

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Yeah.

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It happens with people. It's why, when I go to the South, I get a Southern accent, and it happens with commercials where, when I took the class with you rather than try to memorize copy that came from somebody else's mind, I wrote my own copy.

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Yup so you know, you know my first impression, my Phil and I are very good friends, obviously, but we have the same taste in the type of people that we like.

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You know not just I mean definitely some people that are like, not everyone has to be like Quirky or offbeat like that's something that comes up a lot in what we tend to cast for at times.

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But it was like, Is this person genuinely funny?

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The second they open their mouth, and every so often in our class we'll just turn and look at each other, or we'll now just like text, because everything's on zoom, and we're like, Oh, my God!

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We found a gym, and we did that in that class with you.

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It was like I mean, I have pictures from that class, because that was obviously in person.

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I mean. That was as early as what do you even remember what year that is?

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We're talking like.

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I was either (220) 122-0110r 12.

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I mean, that was so long ago. Like, when you think about it, it doesn't feel like it.

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But it was, and the fact that that's how well, first of all, that's how long we've known each other crazy.

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And then so in that class, I remember you wrote your own, and we just looked at each other like this. Guy's a freakin genius, and it was it was so.

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Oh, my God! We get this like sense of relief. But you were also.

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You were on the ride at the time. Right was that the when you were the rapper on the ride?

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I think I might have been at the right at that time.

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Around that time. Yeah.

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Yeah, which was another job that I saw was working at the print shop, and I thought to myself that I would do better if I was closer to my industry, meaning that I was doing something in performance.

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Right.

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So I was on backstage, and I was on actors access, and a thing came up that was looking for a freestyle wrapper for the ride, and when I was in college a friend of mine was really into wrapping.

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So I like would be box for him, and then I would wrap with him, and then it was like a thing I did drunk at parties. So I was like, and I and then I I did.

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Can you be boxed? Can you be by? Can you right now, like a little bit?

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No, no, no!

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No comma. So if I need to beatboxer, Ryan would have booked it.

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Did you come in for that one? I think you did.

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Yeah, I I probably wouldn't book a beatbox or roll, because my rhythm is bad.

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My technique is fine.

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Alright, well, maybe later, when we're not recording, you can teach me how to do it.

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Okay.

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Because it is on my bucket list to learn. Okay? Oh, fun! Fact. You didn't know about Stacy Gallo.

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Huh? Okay, I don't have any room either.

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Okay, I look at. I I look at beatboxing as a, and it was just the time that I was doing it.

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Ebb. Boxing is like bringing a gooditar out at a college party.

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It's like the thing that people know. Yeah.

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Really, I think, well, okay, so obviously, because I'm in casting right?

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Yeah.

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I've had, I've had to cast for beatboxers and people that can do crazy things with their mouths a few times and I've met some really amazing ones.

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So maybe that's my goal is to be like, really like one that will like.

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Come on, stays, come to our party so you can beat box for us because you're still good at it.

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I know. Maybe.

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No, I feel I know what you're saying. You pulled out a guitar and like at an I'd be like I'm going to.

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I'm getting the fuck out of here. I wouldn't want to be there.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Okay, but yeah, I think it's a, I think it's a great skills.

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But anyway, you took you said that you could do that.

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So I could, and so so when I saw this break, then I was like, oh, I could be the freestyle rapper for this.

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And so I realized that my application wasn't gonna get any further, you know, like I applied.

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Okay.

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Oh, my God!

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So what I did is, I found the casting director's phone number, and then I called him, and I wrapped him a voicemail.

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And he was like, Yeah, you're in. Come on in.

00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:44.000
Alright! If I had a mic I would drop it. Okay, because this is the epitome, the epitome of how you don't cross the line because you have the talent to back it up.

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.000
I always tell actors like you can't be a stalker.

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:52.000
You can't really do what Dave does unless you have the goods to back it up.

00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:59.000
There's no reason not to try, but, like you happen to be able to do these things like every that.

00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:00.000
This is what I talk about, too, and one of the things I wanted to like.

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:06.000
Talk about your process because you always go that extra mile on auditions and like trying to find out.

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:26.000
You know more about the You research the product. You find out who the director is, but you'll like, take the script apart and you go so far above and beyond the norm that I think is what books you so many jobs is why people like, seek you out and are like we need this, guy even if they just audition

00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.000
you to get ideas and steal them. I feel like that's such a.

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.000
It's your the way you prepare, and you're professionalism.

00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:39.000
And the fact that you were doing it at that young age enough to call up the casting director, which most people would be like.

00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.000
Oh, my God, what balls like! You're crazy! But it worked.

00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:49.000
It. It did, and my thought around it was like, Yeah, I actually thought I could be crossing a line.

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:53.000
But I was like, Well, I'm started. I have nothing to lose.

00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.000
Right. You really didn't.

00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:00.000
And also my thought was that he has a problem, and I'm here to solve it.

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:05.000
That's another thing that we talked about the time exactly, and you did.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:06.000
Yeah, he needs to cast this role. He needs people to be good at this role.

00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.000
I can be good at this role.

00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:13.000
Do you remember what happened next? Do you remember if he called you, or like, I'm just curious how he took.

00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:14.000
He called me, he called. He was laughing. He was like, no one has ever done anything like that.

00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:22.000
I loved it. He's like Come in, you're auditioning, and I came into the audition, and when I walked into the room he told, everybody's voice, mail voicemail, I mean like it.

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:31.000
It was. I just walked into the job after that, you know.

00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:36.000
Alright. So now that you're right. But now that you're a durable okay?

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:37.000
Yeah, yeah.

00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:49.000
Also commercial director. You know that if actors started calling your cell phone right and crossing a line in a way that or or me as a casting director, I'd be like guys like I can't.

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.000
I got 3 kit like it's it's invasive.

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:58.000
You see. But if somebody made an impression like there's some self tapes that we get that are so.

00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:05.000
A amazing and impressive that we're like. We'll then talk about it after we're like, look at the extra mile, or look what this person did.

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.000
Yeah.

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:14.000
But I mean you did take a really huge risk in doing that, but it paid off so much.

00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:15.000
Yeah.

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.000
But I was. So I was. I had an offering. I came with an offering right.

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:17.000
That's the biggest. If you're just calling people, or whatever.

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:24.000
Think about me, what I're not giving them a solution.

00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.000
You're not helping them. That's what you want to do is help them.

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.000
If you just remind them you exist, you're not helping them.

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:34.000
If when it I actors reach out to me all the time right?

00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:40.000
Yeah.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:41.000
Yeah.

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:42.000
I, when an actor reaches out to me, and then they send me something that they've done or been in that arms me right.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.000
Maybe I want to time to look at it. But also here's something I can't do.

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:50.000
Keep everybody in my head all at once, especially when I'm on a job, when I'm directing something.

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.000
I have 5 million things I'm supposed to take care of.

00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.000
Got it?

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.000
Casting is one small part of it, and so.

00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:58.000
Wow! Small. You know how I feel. It's pretty big.

00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:59.000
Yes, but you, but as a director it's vital.

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.000
I? Yeah, no, it's vital.

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:15.000
But I fully trust me. I know that from the beginning people have no idea what goes into one commercial, and the the amount of things that you have to have in your head is insane.

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:23.000
So when a person reaches out to me and says like, and I, Yeah, obviously, if they're calling me, that'd be crazy.

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:24.000
Yeah.

00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:30.000
But if they DM me on Instagram, I see all that, and when they do it, and they say like, Here's this, here's this thing I was in.

00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.000
Right.

00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:37.000
Maybe you don't know if it's right place right time, because a lot of times people send me that I'm like, oh, I'm on a different project.

00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:38.000
Yeah.

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:39.000
This is just washed away, but if it's the right place right time, I go.

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:44.000
Oh, yes, I could bring you in on this right now.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:49.000
Right, and it's such a good feeling because then it's you know it's it, like all.

00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:52.000
It all fits together like a puzzle. In that moment, right?

00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.000
Yeah.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:58.000
So okay, wait. So I wanna go back for a second. So then, alright.

00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:08.000
So you've done other things like that you've done other things like the ride moment, right where you've taken a chance and you create things and and one of my favorite stories.

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:19.000
If you would be if you don't mind telling it again, cause I love it so much is the was it the lime, Arita, when you booked that like what you did? There?

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.000
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:26.000
And I have a few that I bring up, but that's the one that just came up about the preparation that you did.

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:42.000
Will live a Rita. So I took. I took commercial acting really seriously, just because I had found almost immediate success in it like not immediate immediate, you know. But there was a lot of stuff casting back then, and you and Phil gave you a lot of at-bats cause.

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:46.000
Yes, we'll sidebar you came. You asked if you could be my reader, which is also a thing I bring up all the time, because you watch a day of auditions, and I remember you saying, like, Wow!

00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:53.000
Like I need to work on my like. You were too big.

00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:54.000
I always tell you this, you needed to learn how to bring it down.

00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:03.000
You went to the theatrical training that you had, and you didn't really trust enough that it was like Oh, or you didn't know enough.

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:04.000
I didn't know. Yeah.

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.000
So you watched a days of auditions? No, but watching it opened up your mind so much to be like.

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.000
Oh, that really works just being myself or just, you know, whatever.

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:22.000
Yeah, yeah, and I feel like this, conversation is going a little over the place, cause there's so much to happen in such a short period of time.

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:23.000
Yeah.

00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:26.000
But 2 cliff notes are. I ended up working at the ride and working at the print shop at the same time.

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:30.000
I told the print shop. I said, I came to New York to be an actor.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.000
If you have to fire me, you can fire me, and they're like no, we'll work around it.

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:35.000
That's.

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:40.000
And so working it both, but then also working at both. But then also I told both places I came to be in television and film.

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:43.000
So when it came to auditions, I prioritized those.

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:48.000
I would just walk out if I had to, if they're like. You can't leave right now.

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.000
Right.

00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:55.000
I'd be like, well, I'm so sorry you fire me, and I'll get another job cause. At the time I was very zeroed in on the commercial acting, and.

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.000
You are honest about it, so it is what it is.

00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.000
I don't. I? A radical honesty is the thing that helps you the best.

00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:03.000
But I'm not good at remembering fibs.

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:10.000
So so I. But also all those organizations.

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:20.000
It all comes back to the same thing. I offered them all value, a value that I was like.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.000
Hello!

00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:24.000
Right.

00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:25.000
I can compensate for the time that I've gone, because the value I add to your organization makes me worth keeping around, and you're exactly right.

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:26.000
I was big. I didn't have any experience on camera.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.000
Practically before I started working with you and watching on auditions really did help me.

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:37.000
Not just see what works, but also see what I didn't like that people were doing.

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:38.000
Yes.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:42.000
And you'd come in, and you'd see this is the biggest learning I had from it.

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:43.000
You come in, you'd see people read the same script you'd see like 100 250 people.

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:52.000
Whatever, and you'd see them all read at the same way, and you go.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:25:06.000
What in the writing made them all make this sometimes bad choice, even like there's something in this writing on this page that they subconsciously adopted, and so that's when I started adopting this approach.

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:19.000
That was like, how can you look a script? Know what you're initial?

00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:20.000
You stand up!

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.000
Read is, assume what everyone else is going to do, and then change the frequency, so that when you go in the room you disrupt what the expectations are, so that you stand out.

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:23.000
Oh, so smart! Right! And you figure that out like you said it.

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.000
You had success, pretty quickly compared to a lot.

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:34.000
What a lot of people! Some people never book anything, and you've booked.

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.000
I don't know if you had to throw a number.

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.000
What 50 60, more!

00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:42.000
Yeah.

00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:43.000
Sure something like that. Yeah, I really, I don't know if the number is.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:50.000
I just say that I work consistently from 2,013 until now.

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:55.000
Yes, and then eventually segue into directing them and writing them, and all that other stuff.

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.000
So, anyway. So lyme Rita!

00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.000
Awesome, the preparation on that was that at the time I like.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.000
I said I was taking very seriously. I wanted a spokesperson job because I thought that was where the money was.

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:12.000
They looked at, you know, flow from progressive, and I was like I. This is it?

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:17.000
I was always thinking about money, because financial security was, I grew up very poor, and I was like man.

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:18.000
Hmm!

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:23.000
I just want something that like covers my bills, so I don't have to think about it.

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:24.000
Right.

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:48.000
So I can focus on more artistic stuff and I've been up for the bud, like mayor of whatever campaign it was down to all the time, because this was like 2,013, 2,014, and it was down to George Basil, who's our good friend totally Phenomenal Actor

00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.000
Phenomenal.

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:53.000
and then, I, Phil, doesn't even remember this.

00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:54.000
Okay, right?

00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:06.000
I'm pretty sure it was Gavin Mcguinness, founder of the proud boys, but at the time he was like acting at like, and this is before all that stuff so that the 3 of us and I really really wanted to.

00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:18.000
I tried very hard to do all my little tricks to get it, and George got it, because George is just an undeniable talent.

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:23.000
You know I met him the same way. I'm at you right, and he just he was.

00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:34.000
So unique. But Chris, so funny, had the funny to back it up, and he bordered like cocky, you know there's Cocky, and there's confident, and he was like teetering, and I told them that.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.000
And then he just like Fill, met them, and that was it.

00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:43.000
But it seemed exact class, same exact situation, and few years earlier, but he is.

00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:44.000
He's a genius, and.

00:27:44.000 --> 00:28:01.000
You know it was I was just in Los Angeles a couple of weeks ago, and I was hanging out with George and Alyssa limp Paris, and we were talking as equals about booking, you know, cause there wasn't that extra person in the group that's like I wish

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:22.000
I could book. We are 3 people. That book consistently, and it was really nice to have that conversation about knowing your instrument, knowing what you do, and you get in the room, and knowing that everything that you're doing in the room is a deliberate choice.

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:23.000
Yes.

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.000
So he's just an expert, and some of the best line reads I've ever heard are from George, so I lost.

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:26.000
If you lost to George.

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:31.000
Yeah, I lost to George, but I know his line reads are great, because I've hired him since then.

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:44.000
And so I was hurt and wounded, and then a breakdown came out for Budlight that was nearly identical to that Maror, of whatever breakdown, and I thought I was being messed with it.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.000
First, and I always like this, is it? Whatever this is, I'm gonna get it.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:29:00.000
And it was that you are supposed to be the the libraryita spokesperson, and the whole idea is that you did spoken word of Lionel Richie's.

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.000
Right.

00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:05.000
All night long right? And so I like spent a lot of I did the audition.

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:12.000
I got a call back, and I really sat down with the lyrics, and I was like, What does this mean to me?

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:22.000
What is this all about? As was like? I think this is more about embodying a character and that character is a person who's not trying to force people to have fun.

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:23.000
Right.

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:32.000
That's the first. Take is that people are going to come in with this big right like, hey, let's let's all you know, Karabu, let's have a great time together.

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:33.000
Right.

00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:38.000
And I thought it was gonna come in loud and and large, and the it said for the call back.

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:44.000
It was like, where, like beach, where Hawaiian shirt or something like that, I was like, I'm not gonna do that.

00:29:44.000 --> 00:30:03.000
I I came in a suit. Alright, I showed up to the audition, and all the other guys were like Oh, fucking Ebert like, because they were like, what did he hear or learn that I didn't know what was the secret that he heard.

00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.000
Right, right.

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:09.000
You know Ben Sinclair was there, and it was before high maintenance and stuff like that.

00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:13.000
Right.

00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:14.000
Right.

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:26.000
And he was like, Okay, fine, do whatever this is. And so I had a certain edge of confidence. From that I had a character and a persona I had developed for it, which was just like I said, like confidence at confidence works in a lot of rooms most of the time and.

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:31.000
A 100% most of the time. But a huge believer in that.

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:45.000
Yeah, and then when I got in the room, this is where, like, I got really lucky the they were casting out of Los Angeles when I got in the room, but I was in New York.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:46.000
Right.

00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:49.000
So it was remote, when I got in the room the the prompter went down.

00:30:49.000 --> 00:31:02.000
It was broken for about 15 min, and they asked me, Did I wanna wait outside or stay in the room?

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:03.000
Right.

00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:04.000
And I was like you will have to drag me out of this room on a forklift you're giving me 15 min to vamp to be this character with this group of people.

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:07.000
Everybody else can just go home right now.

00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:12.000
Right, right, when you also have the Sudan, which was also Genius.

00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.000
I had. Yes, I had the suit. I came in with a look.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:17.000
But yeah, go ahead. Yeah. You were the total package at this point.

00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:20.000
And I, and I like, was in character at the moment. I walked in that room until I left.

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:21.000
Smart. Yeah, yeah.

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:26.000
You know. So yeah, so that's that's what booked me. That campaign.

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:31.000
And and it was such a strong take on the character that the wardrobe ideas I brought to it are like what they did.

00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:35.000
They the guy they rewrote it. Now I was a guy in a suit.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:45.000
Yeah, I remember, you made them think about it in a different way, because you made such a strong choice, and you went in like so sure of yourself.

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.000
And knowing like, okay, this is how I see this. And you took a chance.

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:50.000
And again pay it off.

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.000
Yeah, I'd say that I approached it as a collaborator.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:01.000
I think that a lot of actors approached this work as a hired hand that it's somebody else's grand vision, and they're just a cog in the wheel.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:02.000
Hmm!

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:19.000
But there are all these different decisions that we get to make about the character that can surprise and delight the people that are watching, and maybe that's why I do have more success in commercials than in television is that in television you are adhering to somebody else's.

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:20.000
Right.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.000
Design. But in commercials everyone's just trying to figure out how to make the thing work.

00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:29.000
Yeah. So one, all right, I wanna make sure we have time for this story.

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:39.000
Another story, that kind of changed your life a little bit was when right in my am I correct when you helped out in the front for a lobby assistant?

00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:40.000
Oh, yeah.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.000
Because okay, so that is such a crucial story for people to know like, why, you're also just such a good person.

00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:55.000
And how important that is, because it then like it literally, what you always say is like it changed your life ultimately.

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:58.000
Yeah, it's not why I did it, but it. But if but it's you know, but like, that's.

00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:04.000
No, of course that no, but it but you were genuinely no, but okay.

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:09.000
So tell that story, and then I wanna you know, hear about this transcription to you directing, and how that happens.

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.000
So we have some stuff to cover.

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:18.000
Okay. So I forget what you it was. No, it's probably 2,014, 2,015 somewhere around there.

00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:29.000
I mean, the bulk of my aggressive commercial career was a pretty short window, and in that time I was at an audition.

00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.000
I wanna say it was Liz Lewis. I can't really remember those. I don't know.

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.000
I feel like it was I was gonna say, Liz Lewis, and I was like, what if I'm wrong? Then?

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:36.000
But you I think it was cause we both have the same.

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:41.000
Well, it was an audition. I didn't even wanna do, because it was.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:42.000
Hmm!

00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:44.000
Phil asked me. He's like, look, the pay is not great.

00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:49.000
It was like 800 $1,500 for the whole thing.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.000
Right.

00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.000
Right.

00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:54.000
It was gonna be like a buyout or something, not a buyout, but like just like a short run, Internet thing for health insurance or something.

00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:00.000
And I was like, Okay, I'll do it as like a favor to you like I'm sure it's worth my while.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.000
He's got the cash it with me that like, I'll say, Okay, you're gonna get me?

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:05.000
You're gonna get me doing my thing.

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:11.000
Right, I'm gonna treat this as much as I would treat any other audition or job with the same professionals.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:12.000
Yeah.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:26.000
Exactly. Yeah. And so I got there. And it was, it was kind of a shit show that day, because her assistant, who was supposed to check people in and out, had called in sick or just maybe it was a no show or something like that so she was thrazzled.

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.000
She's going and she's like, look at who's here? She's got to go.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.000
She's got to run a camera. She's just a bad day for her, and I was like, I don't want to audition for this version of this person.

00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:48.000
This is a person who, I see, a clear need for this version of this person.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.000
Right, right.

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:59.000
This is a person who I see a clear need for, and I always everything. Where if I see somebody with a clear need, I always wanna like solve their problem, you know, which is a problem in New York cause.

00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:00.000
Right.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.000
Like everybody's got a cup of change and they're like, Please, and I'm like I used to walk around the city with 5 singles, and I'd be like, this is my budget to give the homeless today.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:09.000
But but so she had a clear need, and I was like, Hey, can I sit the desk for you like?

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.000
Right.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:17.000
I'll just, and I it was like a a day that I didn't have work or something, and I was like, I'll just run the desk.

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:18.000
I'll sign people in whatever you do your thing in there.

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:25.000
And she was like I read it. It was like given water to somebody in the desert.

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:26.000
She was like, yeah.

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:29.000
She just started crying. She was like, Please, thank you so much right.

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:30.000
She was like, yeah fit.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.000
No, she was just grateful, she was grateful, so so I ran the table for 2 h.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:43.000
It really wasn't that long 2 h, and then she called somebody, and that person came in relieved me, and then I did my audition, and I left, and of course I got a call back.

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:44.000
Right, right.

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.000
I could have gone in there and, like, you know, fell asleep on the floor.

00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:59.000
I would have got a call back, and when I got into the callback the director's there, and they're talking about it, you know. They're like, Hey, you know.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:00.000
Yeah.

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:02.000
He set the desk for me, and then, of course, I had a good audition right, but I had made that impression as a person that people wanted to work with, so he hires me.

00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.000
Human, yeah.

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.000
Yeah, he hires me. And it's a, it's an okay job.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.000
Right.

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.000
It's okay. Couple of 100 bucks in my pocket.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:15.000
Yup!

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.000
But but that director. Now this is, we're kind of converging.

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:18.000
Yeah.

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:22.000
Things happen. That director was given a campaign at Viacom.

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:23.000
Yeah.

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:33.000
No casting session. He could just cast actors directly Viacon gave him a lift, a list of actors.

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:38.000
Who was that? Who were on their roster of talent?

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:39.000
Right.

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:40.000
And I was on Guy Cote at the time, so he had the whole cast.

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:45.000
The guy code he could pick from. Well, he looks at the list, and he sees me on.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.000
There he goes. Oh, yeah, I want this for this.

00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:50.000
And so.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:53.000
See, but I think I'm a big believer in Karma and all that, and I think that you're a good person.

00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:58.000
But the fact that that happened like this is why it's also one of my favorite Ebert stories.

00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:03.000
Because, how? Okay, so then, what happened? So he's see? Journalist.

00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:04.000
And he's like done him.

00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:07.000
So that it's done him. And so this campaign is a lot bigger.

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:08.000
I mean, it's like buyouts and stuff like that, like flat rates, or whatever.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:13.000
But it's we're going to. It's for Sonic.

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:17.000
We're going to a bunch of cities and the overall pay is going to be $35,000, which at the time was a lot of money like more money than I'd ever seen before.

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:22.000
Wow, yeah, right?

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:28.000
Cause. Keep a bite at the time, Guy code, like, I think we're getting paid like $8,000 for the season, you know, like.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:29.000
Well, sometimes that when I worked at Mtv. It was like you had to pay them to work there.

00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:32.000
Yeah, so right, it's good exposure.

00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:38.000
It. Basically. Yeah. So it's a ton of money.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:39.000
But you're not getting.

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.000
And I'd go and city to city with the same crew.

00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:49.000
And honest crew. I meet this producer and his name is Chris Hughes, and Chris was like, You're so funny.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:51.000
We're spending so much time together. It's like you're so funny.

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.000
Yeah.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.000
Is there anything you're working on, and that keep in mind.

00:37:54.000 --> 00:38:02.000
I also always have like stuff ready to go for TV and film because I wanted to make TV in film. So I was, it was important to me to like be writing scripts and be creating this stuff.

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:13.000
Always. You always had stuff. Always had right. You were old, cause I would see you at the studio, and it would be like, Oh, I'm working on this, I think one time I yelled at you was like you need a manager.

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.000
Remember that.

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.000
I, yeah, yeah. And I got one. And I and I fired them.

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.000
Well, I am glad that I got you. A manager that you've hired.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:21.000
I needed them when I needed them.

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:26.000
I don't know exactly, but anyway, you were always working on something.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:27.000
So you told Chris.

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.000
So I told Chris, I was like, Yeah, actually, I have this idea.

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:37.000
It was something that I had written in a sketch class that I then developed into a web series that had already gotten rejected. It.

00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.000
Funny or die, and the whole concept was like, Are you afraid of the dark meets drunk history?

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:43.000
And he was like easy. He and he saw the script, and he's like we should make this TV show.

00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:57.000
You gotta do this as a TV show, and he is like you got like, give me the money and we will make a proof of concept for this.

00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:01.000
Wow!

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:02.000
Jared yep. Love.

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:06.000
And and he introduced me to Jared Lapidus, and so Jared was the director on it, and he and Jared.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:13.000
It's been my biggest role model as being as being a director.

00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:14.000
Like, I, basically, yeah.

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:19.000
I love him I don't blame you. He's one of the greatest people.

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:20.000
Yeah.

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:27.000
He's just yeah. That's a great role model like I would I just think he's so.

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:28.000
Yes.

00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:29.000
He's another one treats everyone so well, so professional, so talented and just a great person.

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:42.000
So agreed, anyway. So that's how you met him.

00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:43.000
Oops! Right!

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:46.000
So that's how I met him, and I gave Chris all the money I had made on Sonic $35,000, and I was like, Don't tell my wife like, let's do this, and we made we made a proof of concept.

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:52.000
And then I stopped that proof of concept to networks like I started with Mtv.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:53.000
Yeah, right, right?

00:39:53.000 --> 00:40:01.000
Calling them to be like because I knew them, you know, like I didn't have a clear way in to any of these places.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:02.000
Right.

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:20.000
It was all just like friends, and and so I ended up selling it to true TV, and they ordered a 10 episodes of it, including buying my proof of concept to error, which means that I actually made a little bit of money off of it instead of just losing money, and

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:28.000
Right, right.

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:29.000
Hello!

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:35.000
I got to make a series go Story Club that it was part of Rachel Draches late night snack, but it was 10 min segments, so it was like almost quarter hour, so like I'm at a biggest payday of my life at that point.

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.000
Right.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.000
And also, you know, I was in Ep. I. I was doing everything on that.

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:52.000
I wrote the scripts I was casting. I was designing set pieces and stuff working with a full department, but it was like, it's where I got my C legs for big productions.

00:40:52.000 --> 00:41:02.000
Right right? And you know you're one of these people that I just feel like you never call it in like, even with the audition that Phil gave you, and you were like, Nope, I'm you're gonna get me.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.000
I'm gonna give you. We never have to worry that you're not gonna do what we need you to do.

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:23.000
So? My last question for now, because I'd love to have you back, I actually want to start something with Fill, where we talk to our you know, our all stars, and you are, you know, a huge all-star as is Basil by the way, he's on the list.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:24.000
Hmm!

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.000
So you know, that's a it's a really good group I'm not gonna lie.

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:27.000
There's others in it, but we don't need to go into that.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:34.000
So how did you end up segmenting into directing commercials?

00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:35.000
I may know the.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.000
That was, yeah. I mean, part of that was based on necessity.

00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:48.000
I I grew to love film work, and as you get older, I also had kids and priorities change.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:54.000
I you still wanna be famous? And then I was like, No, I really like spending time with my kids like I don't.

00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:55.000
Nice.

00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:01.000
Wanna it was hard I would go and shoot a movie for a bunch of days or a couple of weeks at a time, and like I would miss being around my kids.

00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:05.000
And so I was like, oh, I kind of want a different lifestyle.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:06.000
He likes his kids so much that he's wearing a hat.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.000
And then the pandemic here.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.000
That, says Ali and Winnie, I said I was gonna point that out.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.000
So he's does really, genuinely love his kids. His Christmas gift.

00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:18.000
One of them was this hat that he has on it says his kids name.

00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.000
Yeah.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:20.000
So now everyone loves you even more because you're super dad.

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:27.000
But anyway, so you realize, you know, that lifestyle take you away from your children and you miss them.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:36.000
Yeah, and and I just wanted it was different. I used to wanna be famous. And now I just wanted to be able to pay my bills and spend time with my kids.

00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.000
Add to make things I liked like. That's my making things.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:46.000
I got. I hated the way that actors are treated, because actors are treated poorly. Onset.

00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:47.000
Terrible, right.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:50.000
They don't get to be decision makers. And I was like, Wait a second when an actor wins an award they go up and they thank all the people who gave them the job.

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:58.000
Why wouldn't I want to be the person that gives people jobs?

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:08.000
Right, I think that's how I feel, too, because my favorite thing, more than anything, is the time where I get to book someone to be like.

00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:13.000
Oh, my God! Listen! Even if it is a small I don't matter, cause it's like that changing them like that.

00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:16.000
I can, you know I'm not changing the world or curing any diseases.

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:24.000
I wish I was, but when you can, like, you know, give someone their first job, or first, or any job when they're like I had an actor.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:30.000
Tell me, and I brought this up a few times that he would literally about to move back home to the Midwest, because and then he booked this huge campaign, and he was like crying.

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:38.000
I'm crying, but I agree I think there's something to satisfying you could love being an actor and doing what you do.

00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:44.000
But there is something about being one of those people. I think that's fantastic.

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.000
Actors are Adam, and Eric Isadvantage, because they are unable to give.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:44:00.000
People things they cannot reciprocate, because they are at the bottom of the totem pole and control and power unless you, unless you're ben affleck, or like George Clooney, or whatever.

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:01.000
Yeah.

00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:06.000
And you'd become a producer. But actors, actors can only consume, they cannot, they cannot give back.

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.000
And it's just it's the way it's designed, right.

00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:12.000
Well, who can an actor hire on a set? Nobody, you know.

00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:13.000
Huh!

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:19.000
They're not a department head, right? So I I didn't.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:28.000
I didn't like the power dynamic. And and I said, Don't!

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:29.000
Hmm!

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:30.000
When I'm an actor now on Sat. I have to pretend I'm on a little vacation, and it's not my set, and it's not my job.

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:37.000
Right. That's probably hard. Sometimes, I would imagine just being able to switched gears.

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:42.000
But what's so cool about you? And this is like where you know. I wrote down.

00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:43.000
I write I don't really prepare too much, because I'm just like I like to have real normal conversation.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:52.000
But like my kids are always like, Oh, the goat! And I feel like you're the goat.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.000
You're like the greatest of all time, and I mean it.

00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:08.000
I don't. I'm not like a throw around or kind of person, throw around her, but what I feel is that you, in this whole time we've been talking it's all about like how everything kind of came full circle for you.

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:17.000
But it's because you did. You did your work all the the whole journey right, and you're always professional, and you're good to people.

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:21.000
And it came back to you. So I feel like that's kinda like, been this theme, even though it's a little like, you know.

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:22.000
We go off on little tan tan tangents, and and you know I tend to do that.

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:35.000
It's it's the AD working hard, but I still feel like, you know, I wouldn't change a thing, because I see your success, and I have so much pride in like watching you, and I love that you hire me.

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:45.000
That's very nice of you, not even just because I wanna work.

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:46.000
Yeah.

00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.000
But it's because I love when you get a job and we get to collaborate together because you've seen every aspect that's also so great.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:57.000
Not most people can't say that, so I can't thank you enough for doing this for me, because I know how much you're juggling, including especially fatherhood.

00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:07.000
And I know how involved you are with that. But I really would love to have you back because we are starting this segment that you'd be perfect, for I don't know when you have free.

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:16.000
As you? No, you'll probably have to have me back because anybody that wanted to hear how I went from acting to directing did not get that answer.

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:20.000
In this hour at all.

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.000
So!

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:26.000
Well, then, you have to come back. But you know, unless you want to tell me, and then we edit.

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:28.000
No, you got 2 min. You got 2 min before I gotta go to my next thing.

00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:30.000
Hi! It! Just there you go! Well, you know what it's reason for.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:31.000
So so you'll part 2.

00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:47.000
Part 2, which there's yeah. I knew that there would be a lot to unpack, but I love what you shared, and I feel like so many people will benefit from hearing about all the things that you do to help people solve their problems right.

00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.000
You were like, I'm gonna fit. Help you fix this.

00:46:50.000 --> 00:47:03.000
So, you know I'm very. I'm very honored to be able to say that I had a small part in your beginning, that I was one of your beginning teachers, but I'm just happier to even be your friend. Honestly.

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:16.000
Well, I I feel the same way about you. I feel like I feel like I you are constantly doing work to better the lives of the actors that you meet, that you everything you say you walk the walk.

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:21.000
In terms of. I know that you're protesting.

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:22.000
Yeah.

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.000
You see their success, and I and I I see that pride I mean, you know.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:37.000
Why are you making a podcast? Why do you make the things that you make?

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:38.000
Yeah.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:41.000
Yeah, you are constantly trying to find ways to give people tools to improve their lives, and you did it for me.

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:48.000
This is such a love fast! I don't wanna end it, but you know we have jobs.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:49.000
We got jobs.

00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:50.000
We have to get to. Well, Ebert, you're the best. Thank you.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:53.000
So much!

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:00.000
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'll well, I'll talk to you soon, cause I've gotta hire you to cast something immediately.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.000
Bring it on. Maybe I'm not gonna complain about that ever.

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